continuation with a discussion with shawn olson.

Started by DARK3063, September 03, 2018, 12:39:50 AM

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so what companies have use wall worm so far? their aren't that many games that have been developed in the source engine. did the devs that made contagion use it?


Thank you for bringing the question here. The page we were discussing on was an all-purpose Max video not related to Wall Worm or Source Engine directly.

Obviously, Source Engine is no longer a major contender for new games. I do not have an exhaustive list of games built using Wall Worm in one fashion or another. Those I do happen to know where the game devs have used WW in their pipelines at some stage in their games' evolution include, off the top of my head:

  • Black Mesa
  • Dear Esther
  • Tactical Intervention
  • Aperture Tag
  • The Ship
  • More that currently slip my mind

There are many thousands of WW users ranging from pros to hobbyists. Here are a few of the pros and prominent hobbyists I know to have used WW in their pipelines for Source:

  • Minh Le (creator of CS when at Tactical Intervention)
  • Shawn "Fmpone" Snelling*
  • Doug "TopHATTwaffle" Hoogland*
  • Rick Underhill*

* These designers have levels in CSGO Operations.

These are just the ones off the top of my head that I suspect you may recognize.

In any event, aside form the dozens of thousands of users of WW Free over the years, there are also thousands of customers of the commercial WW products. While a portion of those are for WW Pro, the bulk of my paying customers purchase geometry plugins and other utilities very often for general purpose design tasks.

As for why I develop for 3ds Max instead of other apps (you mentioned Blender)? This is simple: 3ds Max is the application I have used and Mastered over the last two decades. It has a long history as the Industry Standard design application that has allowed me the opportunity to both accomplish my own design tasks but also the privilege of interacting with countless talented artists. You had mentioned in the earlier post that I would be better off designing for Blender; what you should try to understand is that I truly love working in Max. The project called Wall Worm Model Tools (and Wall Worm Pro) are a direct result of my own personal passion for using Max. I could not easily bring that same level of passion to Blender for several reasons--one being that it would be a lot of work for me to learn Blender and its development tools propping up a project that would likely have very little payoff: as much as I enjoy the Source Engine community, I just don't have the time to build a pipeline for Blender as the future of game design is not going to be in Source. Remember, I started WW in 2010--back when Source was much stronger than it is now.

Only if the development of Max came to an end (which is highly unlikely anytime soon despite the commonly rampant rumors) would I likely move to another application for building my pipelines. If that were to happen, Blender would definitely be the next destination for me.

Hopefully this covers all the questions you had (going back to the YouTube discussion).



I do not understand the nature/intent of the question. Of course all of my customers and users are those who use 3ds Max since that is the DCC on which I focus.


we can always skip that question if need be. is 3ds max more of a hobby for you? i know you mention enjoying the software.


Can you explain your interest in knowing about my personal background on this topic? I'm not clear on this.

Like many, 3D started out as a hobby for me. It moved to professional several years ago.


my personal interest on this is base on finding a good tool for something like gmod, or if you wanted to make your own game later in source. But then later found set tool that would help people massively. that i don't have any doubt that their are a few maps made for gmod in set program. Was locked behind a additional paywall of over $1000. you mention before you did because you like 3ds max? but now you say your doing it to be professional? isn't this paywall kinda hurting your business?


I think you misunderstand. I do contract work for various projects. For those that involve 3D, I work with 3ds Max. My hobby of Source Engine level design started WW years ago. When it comes to Source-specific tools I develop, they are based on my own needs as someone who builds things for Source. However, my profession is not limited to Source. There is not a huge commercial future for anything that is Source-specific. I do make money from Source-specific work (WW Pro and as a developer for Black Mesa) but that is not what will sustain future income.

The bottom line is that if you want to take advantage of the expansive tools in Wall Worm Model Tools or Wall Worm Pro, you need to use 3ds Max. If you are doing Gmod as a hobby, you can always apply for the EDU license of Max. If working commercially, the cost of Max being worth your money, that is up to your own needs.

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