prerogative

Author Topic: de_pontifici (CS:GO)  (Read 9626 times)

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« on: February 28, 2015, 03:33:37 PM »
Hello everyone,

Here I am again, with a brand new concept in the making.



Nothing fancy (yet). This time around I didn't want to fall for the 5th time in the same 'trap' I have always been falling into in the past, in other words recreating something existing like I have always done. Instead I started with a complete greybox, then playtested it and only then after tweaking and readjusting that same greybox to have a balanced result I started texturing and adding props on places I'm 100% sure to utilise.

This will allow for something totally new to be born among my older realisations as it will be the first map to be raised from thin air with almost no inspiration from pre-existing locations or monuments. It will also be more competitive with rotation times and bombsite locations thoughtfully implemented as opposed to randomly placed/lucky guessing timings and events.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 04:45:14 AM by Joris Ceoen »
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

wallworm

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Karma: +95/-1
  • Behind me?
    • View Profile
    • Wall Worm Tools
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 07:42:48 PM »
I am so glad you are sharing this. As you are one of the more prominent WW users doing the level design in Max... it was actually a sore point that I had to exclude you and a couple other WW moderators from the current mapping contest. I think that the next one I will probably remove that restriction so that you and a few of the other more hardcore WW faithful can participate and share your creativity.

This is a great start to the level. Of course I saw more than what is in your screen shot here. I know that others will be able to learn from you once you get around to sharing some of what you've learned about doing levels in Max. I can already tell that this level is far more well planned than Cathedral (which was not a shabby map at all--it's failing is in many ways the same failing with some of my unpublished levels over the last few years: slightly haphazard initial design). This level looks more cohesive and meticulous from a technical CS/Source perspective at this early stage. I have a feeling that it's a result of maturity as well as experience from the last year of testing the WW waters that you are more comfortable and confident.

I look forward to seeing it come together. Not to mention watching your general progress as an artists :)
Shawn Olson
Author of the Wall Worm Model Tools

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 04:28:42 PM »
A quick screenie of the Bombsite B that is finishing up with some environment assets. It's clearly heading into a medieval-city theme which is something I wanted to do for quite some time. I'm having some good results with the lighting right now in-game, but I'll wait until the very end to share in-game screenshots. For now:

de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

wallworm

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Karma: +95/-1
  • Behind me?
    • View Profile
    • Wall Worm Tools
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 05:09:54 PM »
Looking good!
Shawn Olson
Author of the Wall Worm Model Tools

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 07:34:55 AM »
Another image:


Working every day now to get this until the end with all the details. I'm still making the houses as a whole and finishing the environments before focussing on intelligent cover implementation which is then followed by adding decals and smaller details to spice things up. Finally the lighting will be done at the very end.
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

wallworm

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Karma: +95/-1
  • Behind me?
    • View Profile
    • Wall Worm Tools
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2015, 09:27:30 AM »
Very excellent!

I think it might be useful for others to know how the level is composed. Being that it's inside Max, a large percentage of people don't realize you can do the brushwork and func_details, etc inside Max. In this image, what objects are brushes, what are models, and what are func_detail groups?
Shawn Olson
Author of the Wall Worm Model Tools

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2015, 09:42:11 AM »
Very excellent!

I think it might be useful for others to know how the level is composed. Being that it's inside Max, a large percentage of people don't realize you can do the brushwork and func_details, etc inside Max. In this image, what objects are brushes, what are models, and what are func_detail groups?
Well Kinggambit reminded me of the lack of tutorials for WW on how to start a level and how to adress the change of pipeline, even though I know you made a lot of those that adress these aspects of WW. After some talking it was clear that what especially lacked is a video that simply explains and shows from start till end how to make a playable level in WW. Sort of like there are hundreds of 'how to make a map for source in 5mins'.

I have decided to utilise this current level as the main showground for the videos I'm currently planning to do for tutorials. The only problem, of course, is that to understand WW you also need to understand 3DS Max a little bit. I can make a video explaining in 5mins how to create a block level with the necessary utilities in WW for anyone to understand, but then again there's not enough time for such a video to elaborate on what triangles are, polygons, the difference between them, difference between element and object etc... So, as a result I will still make such a video first and then link to a video each time explaining the terms I'm using and mentioning at that time that there will be a video elaborating on those.

This allows experienced Max users to instantly transition to WW and have a good idea for building the walls with the space within they will define their level designing spirits that will at least run on Source straight out of Max. I think simply the abilty to see it working out of a video will allow them to comfort even more and always get back to such tutorials when necessary.

Here is a .gif that will show the difference between all of those layers that you just mentioned:


I know that for level designers experienced in optimization will probably frown at some of the brushes that should remain func_detail, but I only have worked on this map for about 10 days, so I haven't had the time yet to carefully look what exactly can be detail and what can't. I've been told by many that optimization comes last, so I followed that advice for now :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 10:13:39 AM by Joris Ceoen »
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

wallworm

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Karma: +95/-1
  • Behind me?
    • View Profile
    • Wall Worm Tools
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2015, 05:35:49 PM »
Excellent Joris.

I'm going to link to this thread in the blog/newsletter I'm currently writing. I'll be sending it out as soon as we post the next WW update. Hopefully today, but maybe later.

Again, great job and thanks for sharing. And keep posting. You'll have to do a screen shot with realistic viewport shading on next.
Shawn Olson
Author of the Wall Worm Model Tools

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2015, 06:43:56 PM »
It's getting closer to being finished while having more of a solid outline thanks to the city walls and the added medieval fortifications:

I will release the map tomorrow once I have finished the texturing and the coverspots for the gameplay. I made sure for having an optimal readability in the most important parts of the map, in particular the bombsites. By then the map can be playtested and any and all feedback are greatly appreciated. Do note that there will probably be some missing textures left here and there because it's impossible for me to oversee every single little place and spot, which is why I need everyone's help.

In the mean time I will already be detailing with decals and adding fancy stuff that should generally be above the player's eyes to not interfere with the gameplay. I will also be using reflective water and start adding cubemaps. I unfortunatly have not had the time at all to play around with texture shaders which is probably something I will be doing at the last day (along with lighting) when I'm 100% sure I have a playable level that is optimized and failproof for the contest.

As it stands, this is the plan:

  • Finishing major brushwork and texturing.
  • Coverspots for gameplay.
  • Releasing Beta version #1.
  • Detailing and propwork.
  • Adjusting to feedback and adding more details
  • Releasing Beta version #2.
  • Finishing up with cubemaps, soundscapes (non-custom ones, didn't have the time :'(... but will be added later on ;D!) and textureshaders.
  • Releasing Final version #1.
  • Releasing Final version #2 if I have the time left and there are still some suggestions.

From there on I will be improving the map by regularly playing it myself on some server that were always happy to upload my maps for playtesting. This is the first map I'm really willing to maintain in gameplay to have the optimal experience and an extra map to be added for casual and competitive gameplay.

With that said, the map is aimed to be 5 vs 5 and not more, but I will be adding extra spawns regardless for the custom servers :)
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

wallworm

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Karma: +95/-1
  • Behind me?
    • View Profile
    • Wall Worm Tools
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 01:37:16 AM »
Joris, this is looking quite cool. I'm going to have to make some little prop for this map to hide in some corner. :)

Keep up the great work!
Shawn Olson
Author of the Wall Worm Model Tools

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2015, 04:49:47 PM »
Joris, this is looking quite cool. I'm going to have to make some little prop for this map to hide in some corner. :)

Keep up the great work!
Thanks a lot!
That sounds like a great idea :D I'll be more than happy to add one as an easter egg ;)

For the moment, I'm so tired I cannot advance. I've literally been mapping since 7.30AM and it's now almost 10PM, my brain has melted. I will not be able to completely finish the map even if there are just a few things left to do. I prefer postponing one single day as opposed to fighting my sleep and mapping horribly bad. It does come in handy as right now the host of GameBanana has decided to lay still for a whole day (for whatever reason that may be).

Tomorrow the final version will be uploaded by the evening as I have school stuff to finish during the day.
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 08:57:59 AM »
I'm currently processing the beta version by adding cover spots. It's starting to come alive, but it's going to be very clean at first release. There are no decals yet, and all the cover spots are basically crates and dev textured brushes right now.

I have some very neat ideas to make the whole city look more 'worn out' by observing some very ingenious ideas of Valve and other mappers that really outdid themselves in CS:GO. However, that final vision will only be uploaded at last on Friday, and hopefully on Sunday if it does get extended.

EDIT: They extended the contest by 2 days!  ;D
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 09:37:25 AM by Joris Ceoen »
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 12:28:07 PM »
Here is the first BETA version of the map:

http://gamebanana.com/maps/185072

This version is solely ment for getting feedback on the gameplay. What cover would you implement on specific parts of the map, what should be changed? What is currently a detriment to the map, and should the river be tresspassable or should it kill by being deep instead?
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

Joris Ceoen

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • WallWorm Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • GamingReviews
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 07:12:04 PM »
Just two images showing minor, but powerful changes (at least in my opinion) of locations that earlier looked dull and dry:




I will continue adding these small details. I have learned from most 'monstermaps' on CS:GO that smaller details are way more supportive for competitive gameplay, easier on the eyes and simply don't overload the map with useless gimmicks. Finding the balance between adding just the right, but necessary prop or decal(s) is the only way to go, as opposed to simply adding and adding just for the sake of adding and wanting to padd the map without rime or reason.
de_cathedral (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/181217)
de_pontifici (WWMT map: http://www.wallworm.net/index.php/topic,1261.0.html)
space_marble_unlimited (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/185591)
surf_greatriver_2015 (WWMT map: http://csgo.gamebanana.com/maps/187811)

wallworm

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Karma: +95/-1
  • Behind me?
    • View Profile
    • Wall Worm Tools
Re: de_pontifici (CS:GO)
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2015, 02:39:25 AM »
Looking great Joris.

I'll be posting some updates tomorrow for the VMF exporter that deal with all the bugs we discussed today. I also posted a tip in the premium section that gets rid of that compile error. And I'm adding a bunch of new overlay capabilities tomorrow. Was going to load tonight but too tired to keep testing and finish up the functions.
Shawn Olson
Author of the Wall Worm Model Tools